My views which appear here have actually been taken from the comments section of my earlier post as I felt it would do justice to have this topic (Influx of non-Kashmiri labourers / artisans into Kashmir and recent threat by some organisations) discussed separately.
I will start with my recent remarks which also appear in the previous post. Request all fellow bloggers to drop in their comments on the topic in this post only.
Thanks
Sajad
Thanks for regularly participating in this discussion, although the subject of this post and your views may not be in complete harmony.Having said that, I’d like to mention that we should not be comparing the large scale immigration (or whatever word you may like to refer it by) of unskilled labour to the valley with the employment of Kashmiris (generally high-skilled) outside Kashmir. There are many reasons for holding this belief but I would like to quote a few:
1. Kashmiris employed in any of the corporates be it IT, BPOs or even banks outside of valley contribute to the national GDP by way of taxes. So, if I am gainfully employed in Mumbai not only do I pay my annual taxes as required, I also pay other taxes like Professional tax every month. This tax goes towards development of the city that I earn my bread and butter from. Can anyone of us draw a parallel here – Does the unskilled labour contribute to economy of Kashmir besides buying bread and butter there?
2. The large scale influx of non-locals to Kashmiris besides giving rise to some unwelcome social issues can also deal a body blow (if it hasn’t already) to the locals who are involved in similar profession – masons, carpenters, barbers. Agreed the services come at a discount, but can we sustain the long term impact – I am not very sure. I would say this is some kind of a dumping being forced on us, thereby ensuring the locals themselves are forced out of the profession.
3. What happens if suddenly this long line of supply (non-local labour) starts dwindling, how are we supposed to cope up with the demand then? We have always been dependent on outside Kashmir for many of the things, this will simply add to our woes.
4. How many of the non-state subjects would be paying their electricity bills, water taxes, road tax. I doubt if they do – and even if they do pay electricity bills (assuming the landlord doesn’t resort to widespread illegal tapping of electricity so much prevalent) it would be a pittance compared to what those outside the state have to shell out.
5. Most of the Kashmiris who earn their livelihood outside spent a good percentage of their income outside the valley – be it mobile bills, travel, recreation, entertainment since they invariably stay at the same place. Thus, again there is an inflow of capital into the same economy where I earn it from. What does non-skilled labour from rest of India does in Kashmir, Earn and then save enough money and pump it back into their local markets- a massive outflow of capital from Kashmiri economy.
I may not be a supporter of Quit-Kashmir, but I do not believe in the fact that we can compare the scenario.
May my Kashmir always remain for Kashmiris.
Juz A Kashmiri
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Response by Sajad
Juz A Kashmiri
Thanks for the reply, Well the subject of this blog and my comments about the recent events (quit kashmir) might not be in harmony they are very important, i believe nonetheless. An open debate about such an issue is vital for the survival of our society as a civil and progressive society. You make some good points but seriously, in the absence of any statistical data they just remain “assumptions” Talking about taxes that Kashmiri’s working outside kashmir pay, well if you are a part of that system you do like wise. If every colleague of yours pays state or city taxes so do you. Now how many kashmiri labourers or masons or barbers pay taxes in Kashmir?????
By paying taxes kashmiris do contribute to the national GDP but look at the subsidies we get……….. even our rice and flour is subsidized.
Skilled and unskilled labour; i would say it is simply a matter of demand and supply. I disagree with your assumption that all kashmiris that work outside the valley are white collar professionals. Wait till November-December and then walk the Old Delhi streets, or Kolkatta for that matter.
We live in a fast globalizing world where labour like capital is bound to transcend territorial boundaries. This is a global phenomena and is taking place in almost every part of the world whether people like it or not. Taking a protectionst approach is only going to help anyone. Now i am of the view that some regulations should be in place but i think what is alarming is that none of the arguments you have made were used by the so called “leaders” who issued this edict. It was simply done in retaliation as a collective punishment for the deeds of a few miscreants. I bet the so called leaders did not even think about the repercussions, as always it was a matter of making to the headlines of the next days papers. The bar association supported the call, which is truly ironic coz i believe bar association is comprised of lawyers ( i hope it still is in Kashmir). Now coming back to the subject of your blog, dont you wish we had these tools (the web, blogs this info) back then when a community was getting the same mixed messages to vacate………….makes me wonder if things would have turned out differently.
Juz A Kashmiri, good to see you back.
I totally agree with you. I still have to read the first comment you got, will see if I agree there as well or not.
Juz!
Good to see you back!
Are you a mind reader? You have penned down almost exactly my thoughts on this issue. I know some Kashmiris who are working within India and as far as I know most of them spend almost all the money they earn right in the place they earn it from. This, as you pointed out, is not the case with the non-Kashmiri laborers.
Some concerns were raised by various quarters about the effect of this net out-flow of money from Kashmir on the local economy. Let us not forget that we import a lot from other states as well.
Some people I talked to raised the issue that Kashmiris students will be asked to pack and leave if we ask the non-Kashmiri labor to leave Kashmir. That is totally a wrong presumption. Kashmiri students spend money and no college/university would want to lose money.
Sajad:
I am not an economist, but I do know that an net out-flow of money is not a good thing, whether or not Kashmiri labor pays taxes or not but the money does stay within the state.
Our rice and flour is subsidised? Which Kashmir do you live in? It is subsidised only for people living BPL as elsewhere in India. All families have Ration Cards as it is a part of our claim of being a state subject, it is a safguard of article 370 as well. They were used earlier because the sale of particular items (Kerosene Oil) was the right of the state as is the main distribution of fertilizers.
It won’t long before the non-Kashmiris claim state-subject rights and then we will feel sorry for trying to save a few measly rupees. And our employment of non-Kashmiris is driving a lot of Kashmiris to the plains of India. We build huge houses worth millions and then to save a hundred thousand rupees, maybe, we employ non-Kashmiris! Alas!
Globilisation! Indeed! Do you know that EU recently passed resolutions which call for employment of EU citizens first and then other nationalities. I wonder why they did that? Are you wondering too?
K
First of all; i am surprised to see how prevelant the assumption that “kashmiris residing outside the valley spend all their earnings there” is. In the absence of any hard data “as far as i know” does not suffice as evidence. I would suggest that you look around open mindedly. Think about all those “pheri-walas”, tailors etc. Dont confine your group to white-collar professionals. Now look at the business owners (the richest people in kashmir) where do they make their money? Outside Kashmir, ( you would argue that they pay taxes and stuff) Who do they hire? ( kashmiris for most part again in theory they are robbing the locals of employment opportunities). Now the business class has not been investing in kashmir due to obvious reasons but as you can very well see, things are changing and money is pouring in again. So i guess we would have to take that into consideration when you talk about the “Net-Outflow” effect.
Again Kashmiri’s spending money outside the state is really sad but it is mostly done with the intention of getting value for money plain and simple.
Regardless of being above or below PL you are given the opportunity of purchasing subsidized rice and flour and i know most of the valleities do enjoy the benefits.
Non Kashmiri’s will claim the state-subject status by working in kashmir…………..?????? it does not work like that my friend, Even a non state subject male married to a state subject female cannot claim the state-subject status. So dont worry about non-kashmiri’s turning into state subjects overnight. (And i am assuming that you know that non-kashmiris cannot own any property in kashmiri while as no such restrictions apply to kashmiris in other states.)
Your example of EU……is not something new. All governments the world over try to protect their workforce, their citizens. That is why you have to be a state-subject to have a government job in Kashmir as well……… Now think of this hypothetical situation; you need a haircut and you have a choice of going to a hair salon one is run by a kashmiri and the other is run by a non-kashmir. The prices and the level of services provided is exactly the same where would you go to???????????????? Obviously to the kashmiri run salon (right) but if the level of service, cleanliness etc is not the same which one would you choose?????
You got the answer; it really is as simple as that.
Sajad
‘
does not suffice as evidence but it is common sense enough for me to think and then maybe act. ‘Pheriwalas’ and ‘Tailors’ from Kashmir do go for Pheris, agreed. They are selling products that are not available elsewhere. It is similar to me buying products of Unilever or Airtel. Those corporations are making money in the similar manner as are the Kashmiris making money outside. Being open minded requires us to think at all levels. Kashmir was the 4th largest consumer market as per a IT survey in 2004 (check IToday for factual details) and is spending enough money on all products/services imported. There was need to strengthen our self sufficiency rather than be more dependent on others, but we are becoming a lazy people.
is again a presumption and widely held one. It is also not evidence poiting towards an alleged fact. Where is this money? I still see skilled workers making a beeline out of Kashmir and now, thanks to our attitude, unskilled workers as well. Last time I checked there 4 contractual posts for doctors with a couple of hundred applicants.
is also an assumption on your part and not a fact, you have no hard data to prove it. If you wave off other people’s assumptions, you do not have the liberty to assume either. Do you have ‘hard data’ to prove it?
Do you know the women’s right bill, it allows what you think is not allowed. It wont too far off when these non Kashmiris start casting votes during elections and thus the Indian Media can claim a great turnout of people in Kashmir. Non Kashmiris can not own land by default yes, but do you know of the recent government policies to lease land to outsiders. It has been buried for the time being but let it come to force.
I am also surprised at the presumption that non-Kashmiris are better workers, I know they are not. I, for one, will still go to the Kashmir barber and I do go as their skill far exceeds the pomp and show skill of non Kashmiris. I have seen both of them working as labor as well and will take (and do take) Kashmiri unskilled workers. They have a right to employment and I am no one to deny them that. Our attitude is sad. Look at Ladakh, they do not allow even Kashmiri cab drivers to ferry tourists around while as in Kashmir that does not happen. It is not even the level of service they provide, it is just the cheap labor that is attracting us to non Kashmiris.
Having said that I have no qualms about skilled non Kashmiris working in Kashmir, atleast from them we can learn something but from non Kashmiri labor we can just help India effect a demographic change. Israel is an example and remember India is a lot more brilliant than Israel.
K
Sajad
I have tried to reply to some of the points made by you
Well we may not have hard data to prove this but I can tell you from my experience that a good percentage of the salary that I earn out of this city (ofcourse not in Kashmir) does go in some way or the other into the local economy. You may like to think of me as some extravagant chap who doesn’t know how to be judicious in spending. Fair enough. I may be able to quote a few avenues of spending which can hardly be categorised as indulgence…
The expenses detailed below are what an average Kashmiri has to arrange for. For the sake of brevity let us assume that I am one such person.
Having a not-so-bad accomodation just ok enough for my family around 30-40 kms from my work sets me back by a measly 15000. Do a calculation for one year and you will arrive at a figure close to 2 lacs. I’d be surprised if a Bihari labourer pays even 5% of that amount a year – Agreed he doesn’t pay this much for facilities that he doesn’t want – but all I am interested in coming up with are figures – Figures which are based on normal living standards in this city.
Commuting the distance between home and workplace means spending more on train, bus, taxi or fuel. Where does it go – Never ever to the valley’s economy. Sure you’ll agree. Put a figure of another 30000-50000 a year.
Electricity – Round the clock – ofcourse – Even by conservative estimates every Kashmiri friend I know pay around 1000 Rs. a month. So add another 12000 to the expenses.
I can go on and on with the expenses (not only me but most of the Kashmiri diaspora I know) have to bear. I can let you know in detail if you are interested. Now do your own calculations and you will realise how much we involuntarily end up filling up the coffers of the state we have inhabited.
Ok, Pheri-Wallah, how can I forget that… I have been in some or the other manner associated with it. I can tell you from my experience that if you compare a Kashmiri pheri-wallah’s spending to a Bihari labourer in Kashmir.. you may come up with one term “enormous”.
I hope you do not intend to say that we do not get value for money in Kashmir – If you do, then I must say I really doubt if you are still in Kashmir – may be you were there decades ago, that is why you seem to have turned totally blind to the realities. Point is not that you won’t get value for money in valley – but that the Bihari labourers hardly spend on things which can be called as fair contribution to our local economy.
I have to really jog my memory to come up with a date when any one of my acquaintances ever mentioned the need of a ration-card except for the purpose of getting a new passport or for some other government documentation. So the question of subsidies doesn’t hold any merit for me.
K has already replied to you about how things can turn ugly for us with the Women’s Rights Bill. I don’t think I need to comment further.
Your argument about choosing a non-Kashmiri salon over a local one on the basis of cleanliness seems doesn’t hold much water. And your argument that services on offer in a Bihari salon are better is simply absurd. Did you ever had a haricut from the Koshur naavid whose shop was at the corner near Regal Chowk, If you have then I am sure you will be the first one to discount your own argument.
If I have gone to a non-Kashmiri salon it was not because I thiought he can do a better job but because my fellow Kashmiri who was in this profession was forced out of the job. Forced out since he was not used to this kind of unwelcome competition. Yesterday it was barber, today its mason-carpenter and good ol’mazoor tomorrow it could be sabzi-wol, mewwa-wol, bus conductor, driver. There is simply no end to it.
If ever you have been to Mumbai and stayed here for a while. Have you noticed something really ironic? Ok let me help you out – All the menial jobs like cleaning, washing, driving, scavenging are being carried out by whom – sons (or daughters) of the soil i.e., Marathis and who hold the reins of trade and commerce – Marwaris, Gujaratis, Punjabis…. Don’t you think there is a lesson for us here?
Kashmiris – Wake up before Srinagar becomes another Mumbai. Allah Forbid.
Juz A Kashmiri
Sajad
I think this piece makes for interesting reading. Click here
K
‘”Pheriwalas’ and ‘Tailors’ from Kashmir do go for Pheris, agreed. They are selling products that are not available elsewhere. It is similar to me buying products of Unilever or Airtel.”
Pheriwalas and tailors sell products that are not available elsewhere……….99% of the products they sell is sourced locally, you can check for yourself. Tailors simply provide labour that is in demand. Try looking at it from a local tailors point of view. How can you compare Unilever or Airtel to Pheriwalas………….?????? Unilever does not sell direct-to-the-consumer, they have their distribution channels and everybody makes money across the supply chain. Furthermore, in case of Airtel the economic impact is self-evident. Let us keep it simple by comparing oranges to oranges.
Yes……money is pouring in both in terms of central funding and private investments. Look around you; hotels have been re-modeled, restaurants have re-opened so have some businesses. New businesses are opening everywhere, now do a quick survey to see who is directly or indirectly involved in such operations (you will find that the overwhelming majority of people behind such ventures either have businesses or work outside the valley). Skilled workers do not find jobs; again in the absence of private enterprise what do you expect. As far as those doctors are concerned i think there are a lot of things they can do instead of waiting for a government job but hey nothing compares to a government job……..right????
As far as subsidized rice and flour benefits are concerned…. well count my entire extended family as an example that benefit from it and i know for sure that most of the people i know do as well ( i can provide you a list of people in case you want a sample)
I am not sure if the women’s rights bill has been passed yet ( i plead my ignorance) but even if it has been i don’t see anything wrong with it. I believe women should have the same rights as men……don’t you think so? Government policy to lease land to outsiders………. well go back to your comments that skilled workers don’t find jobs and you know the reason….there is no private enterprise in the valley (barring a few) so in order to attract this investment to create jobs, widen the tax base etc this option has to be considered unless you come up with something equally beneficial.
Juz-a-kashmiri
I am glad that you contribute to the local economy of the place where you work. But let me tell you even though it might surprise you somewhat. A Bihari labourer also contributes to the kashmiri economy, simply do the same analysis proportionally. How much does a Labourer make a day? How much does he pay in rent? How much does he spend on food? Transportation? I Know in comparison to your spending this may see meager but so is his income…… I am pretty sure that proportionally his spending can be more close to yours than you think.
Kashmiri’s spending money outside……..i stick with my belief that it is done to get better value for their rupees. Now, by that i mean that the general belief in the valley is that everything in big cities is cheaper and of better quality than what is available in the valley, which is not the case though. But I have seen people buy their branded refrigerators and washing machines in Delhi etc. Simply because they somehow assume that telling their neighbours that they got it from Delhi will add to its glamour. Same goes for apparel and other electronics we kashmiris are happy to compare the prices and brag about the deals we clinch outside the valley. We don’t think about the economic repercussions of our spending outside, it is sad but true. That is what I meant by saying that money is spent outside the valley to get more bang (perceived in most cases) for our bucks.
Ration-Card: I have already replied to K about it………it might be so that we just happen to come from very different backgrounds. My entire extended family (& believe me I have a large one) still uses the privileges.
Kooshur Navid @ regal chowk: I never had a hair cut from him but I believe you that he is among the best. The question we have to ask here is why are the non-kashmiri barber shops thriving?????????? I believe they charge the same as kashmiri barbers.
Comparison with Mumbai: Comparison with Mumbai is a bit extreme I think, Mumbai has always been a cosmopolitan, port-city, financial hub of the country. Do you think Mumbai would have been the same Mumbai without the contribution of the Guajarati’s, Punjabis and Marwari’s etc.??????? Maybe the case of Mumbai will provide some answers to how we as kashmiris can prosper without being isolationists and exclusivists.
Sajad
Sajad,
I have restricted myself to responding to comments which are directed towards me. I trust my good friend K to handle things meant for him better than anyone can so I wont venture there.
First of all let me re-iterate, the example that I have given is a hypothetical one. It may not be the best fit in my case but it almost mirrors the reality. Now coming to your comment about contribution to the economy, let me try and explain why your reasoning is flawed. Unlike the Bihari labourer, a Kashmiri employed outside stays there for the entire year. How long do Biharis stay in Kashmir – only for a few months, earn their rupees and head home to spend there. Now try to draw a parallel here. I am sure you cannot.
Friend you have really surprised me here on two counts – more value for money outside is a myth, I do not want to harp on my experience but I can tell you it is not the case. And your assumption that buying a fridge in Delhi and bragging about is the idea is nothing but a tale of 80s. I hope you are not experiencing any kind of time travel.
I have no idea about the subsidies available. Pardon me for asking this, how much money do you think your family (and the extended family) save per month. Let’s assume its a couple of thousands. Too small a price, I’d say for the damage we are letting to be inflicted. And talking of privileges, what if this “privilege” is withdrawn tomorrow, is that a case for secession from India? May you answer this one.
A simple reasoning should help you figure out. If you let video parlours, casinos like places to open in Kashmir without any restriction and then happen to see young crowds flock to those places, Would you call such a development as positive?
What is popular, need not be always better. Glamour is what initially attracted our teenagers approach non-Kashmiri barbers and ultimately this is what pushed out any Kashmiri who was involved with that trade. And now when your good old Koshur Naavid is gone, these very half-skilled or even quarter-skilled guys are having a field day. I have seen 14 year old children pretending as if they are next Javed Habibs from bylanes of Bhagalpur.
Interesting point this one, I must admit. And I would not just oppose it for the sake of it. At the same time, you have to understand that your Bihari mason or barber is no Patelbhai from Gujarat or Mittal from Punjab who not only earn themselves but in the process generate jobs for local populace and create wealth for the general public. Can your Bihari guy do this. Never.
Juz A Kashmiri
P.S. Energy Conservation Tip In my school days, I was taught that a ‘?’ sign should finish a question, Having several of these after one question is a waste of paper and ink and energy.
Sajad,
Any idea if such ration card subsidies are in vogue in US too?
Juz A Kashmiri
Juz-A-Kashmiri
“Unlike the Bihari labourer, a Kashmiri employed outside stays there for the entire year”
First of all we are not excluding Pheri-wala’s here so once you include them you get the clue. Another important comparison you might want to make is to compare the number of Pheri-wala’s to the number of people employed outside kashmir. Of course you know that Pheri-wala’s don’t stay all year round either. Please don’t restrict your comparison to “employed” kashmiri’s residing outside as it turns out to be a lopsided one.
“more value for money outside is a myth” If you read my comments you will deduce that I agree that it is simply a perception but a widely held one. “buying a fridge in Delhi and bragging about is the idea is nothing but a tale of 80s. I hope you are not experiencing any kind of time travel”. No, I am not experiencing any sort of time travel, apparently you have failed to observe what goes around on the carousel at the Srinagar airport or comes off of a Srinagar bound bus. Next time you travel to Srinagar make it a point to observe what people bring home, you won’t believe it. As far as a tale of 80’s is concerned, I agree that it has lost some of its luster, but it is still held by a large portion of the Kashmiri population.
“Ration Cards” Here is where I have noticed that most of our observations about most of the things differ, we probably come from two different groups of Kashmiri’s. Your group of kashmiri’s does not even bother about the ration card unless it is required to get an Indian passport. My group of kashmiri’s sees ration card as a means to access subsidized rice, flour, sugar, kerosene etc. For my group of kashmiri’s how much we save does not matter cause you know what every single paisa counts.
“Too small a price, I’d say for the damage we are letting to be inflicted. And talking of privileges, what if this “privilege” is withdrawn tomorrow, is that a case for secession from India? May you answer this one?”
I don’t quite get it, what damage are we letting to be inflicted by using ration cards? I hope you don’t assume that ration card privilege is the only sop provided by the government to keep us tied to India. I am sure you know that there is a whole array of incentives provided that has earned our state the title of the “most pampered state” in India. If the privileges are withdrawn, so be it, I am sure we will figure out a way but to think about the secession I guess we have to think about other figures as well consider this: In 2001 the states non-developmental expenditure (let us not even bring the development projects into this picture) was Rs 2,829 Crores which included Rs 1193 as a salary bill. The total revenues were just Rs 1,095. Simply stated, the state cannot even pay its own employees without central aid.
Koshur Navid: I am not in a position to judge any development as positive or negative. The reason you give for the thriving non-Kashmiri barber shops does not quite explain it. It has been more than 15 years now since the first non-kashmiri barber shop debuted and since then they are on a roll. Had it been just glamour, it would not have lasted this long. Bear in mind that there are Kashmiri barbers still around but they are not as successful (barring a few). Next time you go to your favourite koshur navid at the regal chowk, ask him who will take over his business when he decided to hang up his shoes. You will get a peek at what is really happening or happened rather. As you know these skills are passed on from one generation to the next and the children of barbers simply don’t want to follow the foot steps of their forefathers and the generation of your favourite navid is ever reluctant to teach anybody who is willing to learn the skills.
NO a Bihari labourer cannot compare with Patelbhai’s or Mittals. But as you know a lot of whom we today know as millionaires started off as ordinary folks working hard to make their ends meet. Who knows the Bihari labourer that you want out of Kashmir may be the next Ambani.
There are no ration card subsidies in the US but there are a lot of other programs that people benefits from (depending on the income levels, number of children etc), this given the fact that US prides itself on not being a welfare state like most European countries.
Thanks for the conservation tip
Did not know you took school this serious.
Sajad
Sajad,
Thanks once again for your keen interest in this topic. However, it seems to me that you have simply turned a blind eye towards the negative aspects of this influx. I am a little bemused to see a Kashmiri (I assume you are one) coming in support of a cause which seemingly does not do the valley lot of good. The manner in which you have decided to put your weight in support of this influx, I wish our political (and other) leaders learn a little bit from you.
Having said that I’d like to reiterate my view point that this influx is going to have a long term negative impact on the Kashmiri social fabric. The sooner we come to grips with this problem, the better. The comparisons of the kind you have made simply doesn’t hold any merit. If you closely examine the trade of a Pheri-Wallah and a Bihari kaarigar, you will understand that a pheri-wallah doesn’t displace a Bengali skilled person from his trade – reason being the fact that pheri-wallah earns his moolah from a specialised trade which has been a speciality of people from this region only. If he doesn’t go to sell his wares in that land, no one else would, so effectively it is wealth creation and not wealth erosion. If tomorrow Bihari mason stays back in Champara, our good ol Koshur Dassil will benefit out of it directly.
Ration Cards debate… And the price… I would again mention that just for the sake of subsidised rice, I am not willing to put the future of my motherland at stake. And if I am right, the subsidy is only allowed to those who are below the poverty line, if it is not in vogue yet it won’t be long before the same is done. So next time, let us debate about something else than Ration Cards and other stuff. By the way you seem to be a frequent flier and hence have observed Srinagar airport more than anyone else. This simply doesn’t gel up with you having to hold the ration card so dear to your life.
I am no economist and do not have access to any financial data. So regarding non-development expenditure and other stuff I cannot argue much with you. At the same time, the figures you have quoted are six years old and reflect only a part of the situation. At this time I am reminded of a famous English sentence “Statistics reveal what you want them to”, need i say much.
Yes, I take pride in saying I have picked up many good habits of mine in school only. Is there anything not-so-normal here?
Juz A Kashmiri
Juz-A-Kashmiri
Well first of all I have not turned a blind eye to the negative aspects of the ¨non-Kashmiri¨ labourer influx. Like everything else, it also has a downside to it but I won’t get caught in a jingoistic and xenophobic web under the guise of patriotism or nationalism. FYI, I am a Kashmiri and proud to be one. Yes I have spoken against the ill conceived call to ´quit kashmir¨ by some of our senior leaders and the illustrious bar association because I believe that the call was more of a political maneuver intended to hog the media’s attention but in the process, a group of hardworking men were made scapegoats and their means of livelihood put in jeopardy.
Negative impact on the Kashmiri social fabric? Now, are we moving from plain economics to social values as it seems to me? Pardon me for asking this but is your beef with the ´non-Kashmiri´ labourers a social or an economical one?
Good old koshur dasil will benefit if the Bihari dasil will stay in Champara, most certainly but so will a local BPO worker, a software engineer, or even a doctor if Kashmiri BPO workers, software engineers or doctors stayed back. ( Forget about the expenditures and taxes for arguments sake). Pheri-walas and wealth creation- you must know this for sure that an average kashmiri Pheri-walas merchandise consists of more than 50% non- Kashmiri stuff. So if he does not sell it guess who would?
All right, I won’t discuss ration cards again, since you don’t want to put ´the future of your motherland at stake´ (now that is poetic, time for our leaders to learn something from you). Being a keen observer of the carousel at the Srinagar airport does not make me a frequent flier, what if I worked as a luggage loader/unloader at the same airport?
The figures I quoted were 6 years old but seemingly things have gotten worse (for most part) since then. A report came out two days ago, (published by most kashmiri newspapers, in case you are wondering) which found that most of the government departments are so inefficient that they don’t even utilize half the funds allocated to them by the central government.
Nothing wrong with keeping your good habits.
Sajad
PS: I have been trying to post my comments since last week but no luck, hopefully this time they will get posted.
Sajad
Thanks for your critical remarks. It seems now you have atleast accepted that there are ill effects of this influx and the thing which you were not comfortable with is that some of the political organisations and the Bar Association (not surprisingly) tried to gain political mileage out of this situation. I myself felt that the people who gave a call for the forced vacation of these un-skilled or half-skilled people from Kashmir were themselves unaware of why they are raising the demand. But that still doesn’t discount the fact that this influx is hurting us economically and socially. So that is why I am not comfortable with this phenomenon at all.
World over the trend is, particularly in Europe and USA (I am sure you would know this very very well), that if you do not have enough skilled manpower the best way to deal with this shortage and to ensure higher economic growth rate is to encourage immigration. All this is done to sustain the economic development, Kashmir has to be the only such example and you must be only one such person who not only advocates but literally fights for the influx of manpower into a state which already is facing colossal problems of unemployment. Yes, carrying this discussion ahead, click on this link and see how even Saudi Arabia has woken up to the reality that you should welcome such developments only if your local talent pool is totally dry. And once you are sure you can manage things on your own, politely show them the door.
Yes talking about inefficiencies of government departments, its sad that you have shown a very clear example of selective amnesia here. The issue which was discussed in those papers was that the gov’t departments are not utlizing the funds allocated since the Vigilance is always on your toes. No one wants to risk his or her reputation, for you know and I know it, not every time can the Vigilance be always right. No one wants to be a victim of witch hunting. Let this be a subject of another discussion.
Juz A Kashmiri
P.S: By the way, I missed this above, loader and unloader of baggage at airport, pretty much possible. What amazes me is the fact that ICANN has arranged a special eye-pee for you. I am sure you will get the point.
Juz-A-Kashmiri
I reiterate that I am aware of the so called “negative effects” of this influx but at the same time there are certain advantages associated with it and I am sure that I won’t need to discuss those as we all are well aware of them. You still have not explained how this influx is hurting us socially though. ‘Quit Kashmir’ call is yet another glaring example of how immature our most seasoned politicians are and how impressionable our so called “educated class” is.
You have painted an ideal world scenario here…..but to the contrary we live in a real world. A world in which millions of unskilled labourers risk their lives everyday to search for a better means of livelihood. Be it the Mexican labourers in the USA, Turks in Germany or the Moroccans/Africans in France and Spain. All these workers seek a better future in a different country unlike the non-kashmiri seasonal labourer who just moves north for the summer months. (I am assuming that as of this moment Kashmir is still a part of India…….right). So the comparison you make is not quite relevant. There is unemployment in the USA and in the Europe as well, yet there are millions of “illegal immigrants” working and living there. So Kashmir is not the only case and I for sure am not the only person who believes that the non-kashmiri labourer influx is simply a matter of demand and supply, a demand for such labour exists and they fill the void. If no such demand existed, they would not be here in the first place. (A simplified version of demand and supply however, I also believe that we critically need to look at how and why this demand is being created in Kashmir and why is it not being met locally)
Good to know that the Saudi’s have finally ‘woken up’ but as Kashmiri’s we have always been awake…… we don’t even consider non-kashmiri’s for most of the jobs in the state (Govt. jobs mainly etc.)
I don’t understand what vigilance has got to do with executing your projects utilizing funds provided by the central government to increase efficiency/productivity. If you want to spend the funds the way they are supposed to be spent. I don’t think there is anything to fear. However, holding back for the fear of being investigated raises many doubts. Let us leave it at that…… as you said for another discussion
Sajad
P.S: Your point just went straight above my head………I am afraid you will have to elaborate a bit.
Where are you?
I totally disagree to your point that unskilled labour doesnot contribute to local economy. Lets consider my view point cheap labour cutdown the cost of production and helps to keep the services at a affordable prices. They help in productivity and there is always availability of manpower.
This problem is not just Kashmiri or Mumbaite, but this problem of labour movement is universal in nature as US is facing illegal mexican migration, india is facing illegal bangladeshi , but these illegal migrants are contributing to economy in a different way as these unskilled kerala / Andhra labour is helping Dubai construction industry.
Kashmiris has nothing to worry as long as migrant labour does not create any law and order problems .
It’s been a long time! Just thought of dropping in a “hello”.
A basic reading of the history of Kashmir informs us that all the people living in Kashmir were in fact at one time, outsiders, but Kashmir never closed it doors to them/us, Kashmir somehow always flourished, all of them/us became Kashmiri. But then, that is just history.
Kashmir Just For Kashmiris
I agree.
But, Influx is Inevitable.
It is the profiteering by locals that would cause this damage.
Damage due to Influx is Preventable.
A Will Durant quote made famous by the movie Apocalypto,
“A great civilization is not conquered from without until it has destroyed itself from within”
Let my post sum this one up.. And my post was atleast a month before [Kasheer] came up with this idea..
http://eldinbleze.blogspot.com/2007/07/bihaari-invasion-in-kashmir-why.html
I love your blog.. really love it..
And yes- Please add me to ur Kashmiri bloggers list..
Juz-A-Kashmiri
Hope you safe out there in Mumbai ………..Just thought about you after reading all these reports about the voilence against the ´Northern Migrants¨
Take Care
Sajad
nice info bro, thank for sharing about that