Hi Everyone,
I am sure if you have been blogging recently you might have come across this one post “An Open Letter to Kashmiri Muslims” on the blog A Soul in Exile. Although a quick glance at Kashmir’s history and some statistics may have helped me to draft a better reply but due to paucity of resources (read time) I have put some of my views instinctively. I am reproducing the same here for your benefit.
Dear Mr. Koul,
Its good to see we have people around who know how to put their point of view across and at the same time not sound offensive. You have raised some very interesting questions and I would try to answer some of those, and I’m convinced you would surely be left to ponder. Much like I have been forced to on reading your post.
You have started with the history of Kashmir and you believe the dispute is a direct consequence of history. I would surely like to agree but not exactly with the events you are linking the present conflict to. If you feel conversion to Islam is the root cause of the conflict, I think you are missing the wood for the trees. If the problem was so simple it would not have reached the stage where we’re today.
Although you start with Kashmir imbroglio and the reasons, you suddenly have displayed the tendency to comment on Islam as to how it has become less of a religion and more a political front (Thanks, but I never knew). I would not agree at all with this assumption and neither with the assumption that Islam has become imperial. Can you name one country which has fallen to the imperialist designs (if there were any such designs). You may cite Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait… well it was not done to spread Islam but for usurping the riches of the oil-rich nation.
You say Islam is losing its identity, Once again thank you so much for I never knew. What I knew was that Islam is the fastest spreading religion in the world – be it US (especially after 9/11) or Korea. I never knew an ideology which was diminishing in its appeal and at the same time growing at tremendous pace. I am sure you would like to check your facts now.
About your argument equating Himachal Pradesh with the valley I have nothing to say except the fact that I am really disappointed to find someone who is so keen on going back hundreds of years ago has conveniently forgotten the similarity does not exist at all. Kashmir always enjoyed an independent existence and only after 1947 has been a part of India (for good or bad, I dont know).
Your query as to why Kashmiri Pandits are not converting in droves, well we don’t have a person of the stature of Sayyid Ali Hamadani with us. And the fact that you always have turned a blind eye to the reality. Tell me the last time any Pandit organisation condemned (even for publicity) the atrocities Kashmiri Muslims are bearing. And let me tell you our heart pains to see an innocent (be it a Muslim or Pandit) being killed at whosoever’s hands.
Your argument of Pandits criss-crossing the globe and living in Europe or US doesn’t hold any merit. For there are two reasons
1. They did not have the guts to stay and fight it out like ordinary Kashmiris (who face the bullet from either side) are. I am told there are nearly half a million troops there for a fistful of “aatankwaadis”. Strange isn’t it.
2. Though it counts for nothing but I am saying it for you only, I assume you have travelled far and wide and know there are countless number of Kashmiri Muslims as as well who are globe-trotters.
You are invited to drop your comments on my blog http://kasheer.wordpress.com as well
I am sure that is enough food for thought for you.
Lets learn to agree to disagree.
Juz A Kashmiri
![Email [Kasheer]](http://kasheer.files.wordpress.com/2006/11/juz_a_kashmiri3.png)
It is interesting to note that Mr.Koul mentions that
“Is it because the trauma of forced conversion still lingers & has got such a hold on your unconscious self that you misread India as a foreign country while as right through history India & Kashmir were twin sisters.”
There is no trauma associated with forced conversion. If at all there is some trauma, it is not lingering in our minds. I see it still existing in Mr.Kouls mind and this letter/article is an outcome that.
Kashmiris converted long time back. I as a Kashmiri might have some roots which land into some Pundit family. But isn’t religion all about choice. Right now it is my personal choice to be a Muslim and it has nothing to do with my ancestors being Muslim or non Muslim. Just like ‘juz a kashmiri’ mentioned, Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world right now. In the US you have Christians, Hindus, athiests converting to Islam, they don’t do it by force, they do it out of their personal choice. There are no Arabs brainwashing them.
Is religion all that should make Kashmiris feel a part of India. Mr. Koul says that had Kashmir been Hindu dominated, it would never feel alienated with India, which implies that the only reason someone should feel linked or affiliated with India is through the Hindu religion. Are not you yourself giving the Kashmir trouble a communal link?
Also its interesting to note that the author mentions the word ‘brainwash’. You can never be a Muslim by force or by brainwash. Faith, the most important Pillar of Islam comes from within the heart. And if it is tainted there, you are not Muslim in the eyes of God.
Tracing the roots of Kashmir problem to the forced conversions hundreds of years back seems to be another attempt of giving the freedom struggle a communal tint, hence making it even more difficult for Kashmiris to attain their basic rights.
Zarafshan , I appreciate your statement that relegion should not be the only thing to make choice.
But isnt this statement of your contradicting your own stand. If not for the relegion,what is the other reason you want Kashmir to separate from India ?
In a modern world, the terrorism in Kashmir can not be veiled by the mask of Freedom Struggle.
God Bless You All.
Dear Pawan,
First of all I would like to welcome you to this blog. I would really appreciate if you can browse through my first post to understand the essence of starting this blog. Mind you, this is not the forum for expressing radical thoughts – we are here to objectively and without any bias comment on anything related to the Kashmir and the conflict which has gone on from the last 2 decades now.
It’s common knowledge that when the strife in Kashmir started the motive was something else until it was hijacked by people who had a different point of view (regardless of our like or dislike) and thus an attempt to give it a religious hue and color.
What Zarafshan is trying to say is that religion can never be the reason for secessionist demands. And at the same time there are reasons much more different and important than the fact that a majority professing a particular faith. If you still feel Kashmiris have a problem with a nation with second most Muslim population in the world, then I think you are missing something here.
Zarafshan is only refuting the argument presented by Mr. Koul in his blog. Mr. Koul feels that had Kashmir been Hindu dominated we may never have seeen this problem and that is precisely where Zarafshan and myself have a reservation.
“History is always written by winners and the losers never get a chance to put things in perspective”
Juz A Kashmiri
Pawan,
“Contradicting my own stand?” As far as my stand goes, I think Kashmir deserves the status it was promised at the time of the partition of the subcontinent.
You know that from accession of the state to India ( which in itself is controversial ) to the scrubbing off of autonomy, there has is a long list of things that went wrong with Kashmir. The wrong against Kashmir continues, with more than one party being responsible for the present state.
What bothers me is that Mr.Koul and a lot of other people link the present state of Kashmir to the “forced” conversions that happened ( or not happened ) hundreds of years back. They forget to see what happened in 1947 and onwards which eventually led to the present state of Kashmir. For them it either revolves around the centuries back religion conversion in Kashmir or the Pundit exodus in the early nineties. They turn a blind eye to everything else and the original Kashmir dispute is covered by the communal blanket yet again.
Dear Zarafshan and Juz,
Nice to see some mature Kashmiri brains speaking out about our miserable situation.
Well, Mr. Kaul… Don’t you tend to say that Kashmiris need to be hindus to be a part of India. You are confused with history yourself and you depict Islam (of which you have no knowledge whether its history or its principles) and Kashmiris ( about which you have confused yourselves with your closed-mind conclusions) in a stark way.
As Zarafshan & Juz mentioned, Islam has never lost its essence whether the Muslims were in power or out of power. Islam gained popularity among common people in Mecca and spread through the world through common people. History of the world is wintness to that. Even at this time, Islam is the most talked-about and the fastest growing religion in the world even though non-muslims including christians, hindus, communists etc have done every possible propoganda to tarnish the image of Islam.
By the way, if we were pandits before conversion, what were we before that?
And if ‘millions budhists’ were eliminated by Hindus in India….it was given the name of ‘home-coming’. Non Muslims flocked (and still do so) to convert to Islam because of charismatic teachings and moral values and not because AKBAR or somebody was a shahanshah.
Kashmir belongs to Kashmiris irrespective of their religion. If we had been Hindus, India will have never played the dirty politics in Kashmir after 1947. That dirty politics communalised the valley and not the Muslims or Islam. Kashmiri muslims participated in all democratic processes after 1947 but how did the Hindu central government treat them? As a historian, you must be knowing it much better. Why donot you write about the misadventures of the centre in kashmir. Why did the centre paly the disgusting role in J & K politics…..wasn’t it religion?
Dear Pawan Durani,
First, a question cannot be the answer of a question.
In first place, why India wants to occupy Kashmir when Kashmiris donot want to be a part of India.
Why only pandits say that Muslims maltreated them in Kashmir and not sikhs, christians etc Everybody knows then how pandits were treated in Jammu by dogras( hindus).
Why conversion of 500 Muslims in Rajasthan is highlighted in the media and conversion by a non-muslim to Islam as a compulsion.
Dude,
May I humbly ask, Who forced Kashmiri Pandits to accept Islam.
Oh! I just remember, Mir Syed Ali Hamdani, may peace and blessing of Allah be upon him, came with a huge army. Duh!
Get your facts right dudes.
he eh
To Juz a Kashmiri, Mir Nazim, etc. (and to anyone whose interested):
Before I proceed further, I must make it clear that I am not interested in the politics of Kashmir – just its history (& language). Kashmir might as well become a part of Pakistan if its majority so desires – to speculate/discuss is neither my business nor concern.
Now, coming to the meat of the matter, I’m a bit irritated by the ignorance evident in comments, about Islamic proselytisation in Kashmir, made by certain people (who clearly need to do a lot more research into Kashmir’s history).
“Your query as to why Kashmiri Pandits are not converting in droves, well we don’t have a person of the stature of Sayyid Ali Hamadani with us.”
The author of the blog, Juz a Kashmiri, made an unsubstantiated statement regarding the lack of mass-conversion of Kashmiri Pandits to Islam due to the current absence of Islamic thinkers like Mir Sayyid Ali Shahab ud-din Hamadani in Kashmir. Such misplaced notions are often too common amongst those who haven’t had a thorough grounding in (or an objective sense of) history.
Let us examine the situation again, objectively this time. The Islamic proselytiser in question, Sayyid Ali Hamadani, was born in 1314 CE in the Hamedan province in western Iran and visited the Kashmir Valley (which itself came under the muslim rule in 1339 CE) sometime in the middle of the 14th century CE.
Assuming that Sayyid Ali Hamadani really had that much of an influence over the Kashmiri Brahmins, by the time of the Moghal conquest of Kashmir under Jalal ud-din Akbar in around 1520 CE ( when Islamic religious thought had been in prevalence in the Valley for just under two centuries), one expects that there would’ve hardly been any strong cultural presence of Kashmiri Brahmins in the Valley !
However, the great medieval era chronicler (in Jalaluddin Akbar’s court), Abul Fazl Allámi, has the following to say about the status of the kashmiri pandits in his Aín-e-Akbari (direct trans. into English by H.Blochmann & H. S. Jarrett, publ. by the Asiatic Society of Bengal, Calcutta, 1873 – excerpt from Vol. II, Ch. 229, para. 3-5):
“Boatmen and carpenters drive a thriving trade. The Bráhman class is very numerous…
Although Kashmír has a dialect of its own, their learned books are in the Sanskrit language. They have a separate character which they use for manuscript work…
Although, in ancient times, the learning of the Hindús was in vogue, at the present day, various sciences are studied and their knowledge is of a more general character. Their astrological art and astronomy are after the manner of the Hindús.
The majority of the narrow-minded conservatives of blind tradition are Sunnis, and there are some Imámis and Núr Bakshis, all perpetually at strife with each other. These are chiefly from Persia and Turkestán…
The MOST RESPECTABLE class in this country is that of the Bráhmans, who notwithstanding their need of freedom from the bonds of tradition and custom, are true worshippers of God. They do not loosen the tongue of calumny against those not of their faith, nor beg nor importune. They employ themselves in planting fruit trees, and are generally a source of benefit to the people.”
Now, what I’d like to know is how does the effectiveness of the Islamic proselytisation by Sayyid Ali Hamadani measure up with the historiographical account, of an authority no less than Abul Fazl, almost 2 centuries after the introduction of Islam to Kashmir ?
moa jadore le kaos c tro mimi ce site et vremen cool moa jldr!
Looking at present situation I think kashmiri muslims have expressed clearly that they do not want to live with India.
They have spoken by peaceful demonstration, they have spoken in past by milatant way, By all means they should be freed from India, well Kashmiri muslims should go one step further expressing their peaceful feeling, that is instead of shouting against blockade by jammu people, they should boycott all goods comming from India . If they do so that will show rest of the world that they are serious and sincere in expressing their peacefull way for independance or freedom.
This has been done by a lot of countries in the past, USA did against Britishers more than a centuray ago to express their feeling and it paid results that USA was free from britishers.
Present situation when they cry against blockade by jammu people is a joke,. In one way they suck good amount of money from india and in other breath they cry freedom.
I think they should be let go free and choose to live the way they want.
Raj
Thanks for the post. Even if you would not have commented in the favour of popular sentiment in Kashmir, still I would have expressed my gratitude for you have tried to understand the situation in Kashmir and what ordinary people want.
This time around, protests in Kashmir witnessed a sea-change. When was the last time, we heard of a pro-movement rally in Kashmir, where volunteers ensured there were no traffic jams, no paramilitary forces bunkers were touched, no damage to public property was done? I think never in my entire life.
The word protest in Kashmir used to be synonymous with Kanni Jung which means engaging police in stone pelting battles. So whether it was a Zulfikar Ali Bhutto falling prey to a dictator, or that dictator himself becoming yet another casualty, an Israel attacking Palestine all this always meant a Bohri Kadal or a Fateh Kadal becoming the scene of confrontation. Youth would come out from the old city areas, throw a few stones and within minutes would be like lame ducks for the gun wielding policeman. Someone would fall on being hit by a bullet, frantically rushed to the hospital and if he is lucky enough may just survive. And if his luck deserts him, he would die for a Bhutto or that dictator or quite possibly for something he himself never understood.
Many believe these ding dong battles were the seeds of militancy in local youth. I have my own reasons to disagree with this thought. But yes, with armed struggle in fore, Kanni-Jung had to take a back seat and was virtually non-existent. But, what didn’t change were the casualties.
If earlier hapless Kashmiris fell prey to police bullets, now it was the paramilitary and armed forces’ AK-56s and SLRs that will silence so many innocent souls. What did change was the regularity with which this would happen and the graph of casualties which would not look southward for many many years to come.
Even when it did, alienation of Kashmiris from India never saw a trough, partly because of local politicians (pro and anti-movement) but the main culprit would be the Kashmir policy framed thousands of miles away in Delhi, by people totally insensitive to the actual ground realities. What happens next, is anybody’s guess. Things were to improve superficially but the simmering discontent very much there – waiting to explode.
And then came Lt Gov. Sinha and his protege Mr. Arun (CEO of SASB) out to show Kashmiris who is the boss. Kashmiris will not take this humiliation lying down. Protests would continue to swell by the day until it reaches a crescendo. Though the protests remain peaceful, the response from the “security forces” will not be different – for they only know one thing, a protestor killed in Kashmiri hardly makes any noise outside the valley so why worry when you can silence chants of disenchantment by a mere flick of the index finger. It makes no difference to them that there are no guns reverbating in the crowds, there is no Kanni (stone) being thrown at them from any direction, volunteers are out to ensure no damage is done to public property – As I said for them a Kashmiri protesting is a problem, a nuisance to be got rid of.
I read about this procession by students of Kashmir’s only medical college one of them carrying a banner which said
I sincerely hope things remain peaceful, guns which have fallen relatively silent remain so. But then, does it make any difference, Kashmiris are being killed and maimed anyways.
Hoping things change and change for the better.
Juz A Kashmiri
Mail: admin[AT]myKashmir[DOT]info
to all you senior people,
first i would like to comment on religious conversion issue .as far as my knowledge goes kashmiri pandits went to the 9th guru of sikhs guru teg bahadur ji seeking help because aurangzeb was forcing them to convert to islam or killing them .and guru ji in true sikh spirit laid down his life for sake of pandits dignity and right to live .now if some body still denies this fact then i dont think thier is any need of talk to them .same thing was done by many pathan kings in kashmir before aurangzeb.
coming to present scenario if kashmiris dont want to live with india they should not be forced.its their right to decide what they want to choose .in the similiar manner we kashmiri pandits also have equal right on kashmir .
we also want our kashmir where at least we are not killed in the name of “unbelievers”.the more kashmiri muslims will stress upon azzadi the more will pandit fight for his panun kashmir .I am in support of kashmiri muslims when it comes to attrocities by security forces .common kashmiri has been killed by hands of security forces and millitants .
kashmir presently needs the stopping of cross border terrorism ,demiltrisation afterwards and rapid devlopment.
so now its kashmiri muslims who have to decide about india ,azzadi or pak.later two will certainly lead to painful division of kashmir
vishvedeep bhat(kashmiri by blood and birth)
student (chemical enggineering)
panjab university
chandigarh
I would like to comment here.If it is natural for Kashmiri Pandits to side with India and natural for Muslims of kashmir to side with Pakistan;in that case conversion of kashmiris to Muslim faith is the only philosophical question in Kashmir.Because that means kashmir Pandits kith and kin has been converted to be used as political instrument .That is why if Muslims want separation then issue of foreginers on the soil of Kashmir should be debated. Because kashmir Pandits put as date of dispute as 1340.Converted people in kashmir like Naga;s converted to Islam and it has fallen on the lot of Pandits to keep their festivals alive, can there be more absurd situation in kashmir.
TO MR JUZ KASHMIRI, I WANT KAHMIRIS MUSLIMS SHOULD HAVE SEPARATE HOMELAND . THAT IS THE ONLY WAY NOW HINDUS OF KASHMIR CAN ALSO GET A HOMELAND.IF STATUS QUO REMAINS KASHMIR IS LOST FOR PANDITS, AS SUCH WE WANT MUSLIM TO ACHIEVE FREEDOM SO THAT PANDITS ALSO GET THEIR DUE. WITH WISHES. BILHAN KAUL
to everyone,
i totally agree with mr bihan koul .the more muslims cry for freedom and pakistan the more easier it will get for pandits to get our homeland leading to division of kashmir valley
I am in support of kashmiri muslims when they are opressed by security forces. but who is not with them, mr juz kashmiri.Do you think that we are so insensitive as to overlook it. But the bigger question is who wins a war with army.State always uses force when it is challenged. This happened in punjab.But bigger question is can pandits survive if they take up arms.It is time to think rationally.many muslims do not think rationally because religion comes in the way.how many innocent muslims have been killed by millitants./ who will protect them/ how many public properties have veen destroyed/who will protect them/I do not disagree that army interfers in many ways, including using voilence. Was it the case before 1990/
to everyone,
koul saheb is very much right .kasmiri muslims and pandits have to introspect within thier communities to search what actually went wrong . we will certainly find the answers to kashmirs present situation and remedies.
vishvedeep bhat
chandigarh
Recently, when president of india Pratibha Patil visited kashmir and said that kashmir is part of cultural mosiac of india ,kashmiri foregin intellectuals settled in Kashmir said kashmir is closer to Central Asia. It is.noteworthy large Central asian population is raising this bogey and an average kashmiri of local variety is caught in a dangerous game of identity politics.Central Asian settlers are entitled to feel closer to Central Asia as their roots are there.But what about poor kashmiri /WHY IS HE MADE TO FEEL PART OF CENTRAL ASIA.IT IS CLEAR KASHMIRIS HAVE GUILT COMPLEX THAT IS WHY MILLITANT CHANGE THEIR NAME FRON HASAN BHAT TO SALLUDIN AN OUT AN OUT AN ARAB NAME..It is time to rescue such local muslims from foregin domination.
.
BASHARAT PEER AUTHOR OF CURFEWED NIGHT ,TELLS WILLAM DALYMPRALE, AUTHOR OF LAST MUGHAL THAT PROBLEM STARTED IN 1953 ,IN AN INTERVIEW.WILLIAM DALYMPRALE COUNTERS BUT FOR YOU IT IS LONG TIME BACK, HOW DO YOU CONNECT YOURSELF WITH PAST HISTORY . THAT IS PRECISELY THE POINT MR DALYMPRALE.KASHMIRI HINDUS ARE STUPID TO HAVE GIVEN FOREGINERS THEIR LAND IN FOURTEENTH CENTURY OR THEY WERE DEFEATED.IF CENTRAL ASIAN MUSLIMS CONSIDER IT NATURAL TO SIDE WITH CENTRAL ASIAN BECAUSE THEY ARE THEIR KIN WHAT IS KASHMIRI PANDIT CONVERT DOING WITH THEM
Wow!! It’s getting better and better. Keep it up man.,
We need your appreciation mr kimberleigh.you know mr kimberleigh kashmiris have been forcibily converted in the past and now they side with central ASIAN SETTLERS LIKE GEELANI WHO IS AN OUTSIDER.HE IS DELIGHTED THAT HIS ANCESTORS CONVERTED KASHMIRIS AND ARE DYING IN THE NAME OF ISLAM.iF I WOULD go to America and find that what AMERICA ALL DOES IS TO PRAISE HINDUISM , I WILL HAVE DELUSION.KASHMIR WAS A TREASURE TROVE OF PAGAN CULTURE AND NOW ARAB RELIGION RULES.I AM NOW CONVINCED THAT CHANGED IDENTITY HAS WROUGHT IN KASHMIR . KASHMIRIS CELEBRATE AND USE ISLAM AS PROPAGANDA AND NOT FOR THEIR OWN SELF.IT HAS CONVINCED ME THEY WANT TO IMPRESS OTHRES AND NOT THEIR OWN SELF. I DO NOT WANT TO TAKE SIDES .I STILL BELIEVE THEIR IS NO HARM IF IT IS FOUND THAT OTHER THAN RELIGOUS CAUSES KASHMIRIS HAVE GREVIANCE . NOW THEY HAVE TAKEN UP ARMS AND ARE BLAMING INDIA THAT THEY HAVE BEEN KILLED. TELL ME IF HINDUS HAVE TAKEN ARMS WOULD THEY HAVE BEEN SPARED. LOOK WHO IS KILLED IN KASHMIR. KASHMIRI HINDUS OWN BROTHERS AND GEELANI AS A OUTSIDER WANTS TO RULE IN THE NAME OF ISLAM
kashmiris praise islam much in the manner communists did in soviet union .Because kashmiris know it is not local to the people of kashmir, hence all the more reason to propogate it forcibily.Religous practices are followed and not preached.We pandits praise Newton, Tostoyl because they were great people and not because someone like central Asian settler preached. Even christanity cannot compete with local pagan culture of hindus, but they have lot of achievements which nobody can touch.Infact modern civilisation is their gift to the world and we bow infront of them. But poor kashmiris have been converted to see evrything good in islam.
LOCAL HINDU PAGAN CULTURE SCORED A SELF GOAL IN KASHMIR.HAD PROBLEN BEEN BETWEEN ISLAM AND CHRISTANITYTHAN IT WAS IMMATERIAL WHO WON BECAUSE BOTH ARE FOREGIN. BUT SURPRISE OF SURPRISES UNDER THE RELIGOUS BLANKETKASHMIRIS HAVE BEEN CONVERTED TO SIDE WITH ARABS. I AM WRINGING MY HANDS HOW IT HAPPENED ,BECAUSE AS WE HAVE SEEN KASHMIRIS ARE READY TO DIE FOR THEIR IDENTITY AND PARADOX IS THAT IT IS THE IDENTITY WHICH IS THRUST ON THEM BY OUTSIDERS.SO CHANGING PEOPLES IDENTITY HAS CREATED CONFUSION IN THE MINDS OF KASHMIRIS.
There is only one philosophical question in Kashmir.That is conversion of Kashmiris.We understand love of Central Asian settlers for Islam of Arabs,I understand their sentimentality. But what is Kashmiri pandit convert doing with them if they recognise only Arab history as their own.In other words,religion has been used for imperial purposes in kashmir.What moral authority have central asian settlers have to hoodwink poor kashmirisI in the name of religion.If Kashmiri Muslim gives me answer to this question than i am ready to to be ardent supporter of him .But equation is not so simple.Pat victories ofIslam has also to be discussed.How can Islam keep people away from local traditions like naga festivals and look for arab history as their only history.Resolve this question first.
The PDP has introduced bill in the assembly to rename Anantnag as Islamabad.What is a joke many Muslims believe it was originally islamabad and was changed to Anantnag.That means Anantnag was founded only 350 years ago.Because it was the governor of Aurangzeb who named it as Islamabad.Well Anantnag is an ancient town and dates back to pre Christian era.There is another irony of Kashmiri historians regarding Mughals as outsiders and the one who took the freedom of Kashmiris but accept the name given to Anantnag by one of the Mughal Governors.Kashmiri historians regard mughals as outsiders in order to show that they are fair lest anybody should suspect that islam is foregin on the soil of kashmir.It is stupidity of such level that they did not think twice that such simple mindedness can be exposed.We know Habba kadal is original name of the place hence anybody who gives it a Hindu name is mischief .But Anantnag;;;;;